The complete meaning of "Holy Diver"

[futurefreak]

In my opinion Ronnie is the best singer and song writer on this planet. There may be some people who agree with this, especially in this forum. So many tried to understand Ronnie´s lyrics. The results can be devided into two groups: 1. "drug-nonsense", 2. other nonsense.

The thing is: First you must understand the world, then you can hope to understand Ronnie´s lyrics.

The Holy Diver:

The most important part of the song is this: "There´s a truth that´s hard as steel. The vision never dies - life´s a never ending wheel."

This truth itself is the "Holy Diver". Since 2000 years, this holy truth dives through the ocean of time.

This truth cannot be broken - it is "hard as steel".

The truth is between "velvet lies": The religion around it. Every religion has only one purpose: To transport an important truth through the ocean of time until this truth finally can be understood.

This truth called "Holy Diver" is not an "it", but a "he".
"He" is nothing else but "our God": (father+son+holy_spirit)

The "tiger" is our money. Without money there cannot be any civilisation. But if you use the wrong kind of money, every civilisation will be destroyed in the end. This useless game of build up and destroy started in the "garden of eden" and it still goes on and on and on... (see: "Heaven and Hell" Dio+Black Sabbath).

Jesus of Nazareth was the first man in history, who found out the complete truth, why money can build up every civilisation and then must destroy every civilisation. But at his lifetime, there was no possibility to do anything against this. And also the real meaning of what Jesus said, could not be understood - until 1916. In this year, Silvio Gesell released his book "The natural economic order".

The unbrakeable truth of the "Holy Diver" is:

father: to give a credit
son: to take a credit
holy_spirit: automatically without interest

When you realize the whole meaning of this, your "vision never dies"! You will find out the complete meaning of the holy bible and at least there will be knowledge instead of religion.
This is the meaning of the cover: Knowledge is stronger than religion. In fact, knowledge is not an evil thing, it´s just neutral. But in the eyes of the priest it must be the devil itself!

In a "natural economic order" the war is over - for all times.
Then "life´s a never ending wheel".

And we all know for the fist time: "If we´re evil or divine - we´re THE LAST IN LINE"!!!!
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"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.

[DevinMacGregor]

Welcome to the board.

Holy Diver lyrics though are not a literal interpretation of christianity.

Ronnie has stated in interviews that Holy Diver is about a christ like figure who saves a world but that world will not let him go. They keep claiming evil exists and he says no there is no evil.

The cover represents misconception as to who is good and who is evil. It is saying do not judge a book by its cover and that all things may not be as they appear to the eye.
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The Cap'n

Sons of Griogair


http://www.atheists.org
http://www.clangregor.org/famous.htm
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'S Rioghal Mo Dhream

[Dragon235]

you have a warped idea of Christianity, money had nothing to do with anything if I'm remembering my religious studies.
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[futurefreak]

@DevinMacGregor

There is no fundamental difference between my explanation and of what Ronnie said in his interview!

@Dragon235

In order to realize, that the bible definitely only talks money, you need a bit more, than "remembering your religious studies".
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"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.

[Spyke005]

the song itself is about a sort of messiah who's finished his work. the people want him to stay declaring evil still lurks around. "You can see his stripes but you know it's clean" is an example, they're saying something is there that is not.

it can be put in context with a lot of things. Christianity and the whole jesus/god thing?

well my post ends here, sadly.

[Peaceman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBAPbOWLxc
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Do not worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the one that says, "To whom it may concern.."

[futurefreak]

Please don´t think that my explanation has anything to do with christianity, which is only the "hokuspokus" around the fundamental truth, that is behind it!

Since we left the "garden of eden" there is only one fundamental question: How can many human beings (more than 150) live together in peace?

Jesus was the first man in history, who found the answer to this question. But this answer has nothing to do with the "holy nonsense" of christianity.

Again: The only purpose of every religion is to transport an important truth (or answer) through the ocean of time, until this truth finally can be understood. The religion itself is never able to understand this truth. After the truth is understood, the religion must die.

The only way for millions of human beings to live together in a culture, is to use money. Without money, there cannot be any civilisation. But money (in former times only Gold and Silver!) has two faces: Build up and destroy.

Ronnie (1980): "Love can be seen as the answer - but nobody bleeds for the dancer! So it´s on and on and on - it´s Heaven and Hell."

Since more than 2500 years, we all dance around the wrong kind money. This is the only reason for hunger and war.

We can love each other as much as we want, we all could be angels - but the war can never end by dancing around the wrong money!

But if "we´re evil or devine", we will live together in peace, when we finally use the right kind of money!

Jesus only talked about money, the whole bible talks about money! But not directly. First you must ask the right questions.

Without understanding the "natural economic order", you cannot ask the right questions.
_________________
"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.

[futurefreak]

@obscene

Your far, far away from understanding anything.

First you should read "The natural economic order" by Silvio Gesell.

You have absolute no idea of what money is.

So how can you declare, that Jesus don´t talk about money?

Money is not only a sheet of paper with a number - it is a fundamental regulating function between human beings who live together in a culture. There are different kinds of money with different kinds of regulating functions (YIN, YANG, neutral).
Whether people can live together in peace or not ONLY depends on this function! This is a scientific fact.

PS: I did not only study the whole bible, but also all the original handwritings of Nag Hammadi.
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"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.

[obscene]

fascist or communist?
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Chase the horizons, catch the illusion
remember the child within
There's no tomorrow just sadness and sorrow
hold on to the Ancient Dreams

[futurefreak]

@obscene

Is your world of thinking really so simple, that it only consists of fascism and communism?

Please try to ask intelligent questions.
_________________
"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.

[The Sentinel]

Wow!!!

For a newbie, you've certainly stirred some shit already!!!!

We are all entitled to our opinions and interpretations of lyrics, album art etc, etc, etc, but to lambast fellow fourm members for voicing these opinions and interpretations goes beyond the purpose of these forum.

Come on, children, let's play nicely together.



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Sick of all of this
The suffering and we just carry on
Isn't it time we care and lose the hate
Understand our fears

[obscene]

Hey, i just think all money's "the wrong money". It's the most brain washing thing there is. Every country in the world has declared war for money and hidden it under the disguise of anything that would fit.

Anyway futurefreak, there are too many holes in your argument, including simple errors of rhetoric.
_________________
Chase the horizons, catch the illusion
remember the child within
There's no tomorrow just sadness and sorrow
hold on to the Ancient Dreams

[futurefreak]

@obscene

"Hey, i just think all money's "the wrong money"."

It´s simply impossible to make a statement like this.

Three reasons:

1. First you have to study the most important money-theories
a) S. Gesell (right, but not 100% complete, most important)
b) J.M. Keynes (nearly right, but important, it makes a complete)
c) K. Marx (10% right, 90% wrong, he wanted to fool the world on purpose!)
d) neoclassic theories (in order to know what nonsense is)
You cannot say "all money is wrong money" without knowing money.

2. Without money there cannot be civilisation. So if "all money is wrong money", a true und peaceful civilisation can never be possible.

3. Silvio Gesell invented a special kind of money that can guarantee an ideal civilisation without war.


Silvio Gesell: He found out the final truth about money.
Jesus: He found out the final truth about peace.


Only up to 150 people can live together without money.
If there are millions of people, you need money to regulate the economic relationships between all these people in a free market.

If the wrong kind of money is used, there must be war in the end.
With the only right kind of money, millions can live together in peace for all times and will build a true civilisation.

Jesus and S. Gesell finally both came to the same result, but from two different perspectives.

All this together has nothing to do with chistianity! This is only the religion that Jesus used to transport his information! Only the words of Jesus are important, what is said about Jesus is totally unimportant.

All this together is extremely difficult to find out. You have to go deeply into the original writings of the bible and all the original writings that were found 1945 in Nag Hammadi, Egypt.

It´s not my intention to talk any nonsense.
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"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.

[obscene]

If I recall correctly, money's been the cause of almost all problems. People started wars to get gold, which is really just sparkly rocks.
Hitler killed Jews for having money. People kill for money, people rob for money.
So no, people cannot live together at all without money because money creates wealth which creates jealousy. Now I know that there are three great fights you'll make against me.
First, you're gonna say that S. Gleebenball (Glutercamb, Glacierbell, Gloatenbog, whatever) says that money is used to make exchange for things that are not equal in value (e.g. a guitar for a CD) well, as with money enough CD's can be exchanged for the guitar. However, with money, one has simply gotten a CD and a bunch of pieces of green paper. Whoopdeedoo.
So I understand it that maybe your not talking about paper, your talking about gold and silver. So rocks can determine what we exchange. But what kind of rocks??? ask Mr. S Gesell that

Then you'll say that in time money exchanges in tops and bottoms. (no better way of saying that). Meaning, the rich and the poor eventually change places. Its true, but only with a bloody revolution. (The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, the Nazi Revolution...all for money) So yes, money only causes death.
And yes, those in control of the revolution also become the rich, not those in it, those at the top. So there never is a true exchange of the top to the bottom.

Finally you'll claim that money can buy peace. This is only assuming that everyone has an appeasing amount to them, and there will always be more wanting more, willing to kill and use their public hate to get it (e.g. Hitler blaming the already disliked Jews for having too much money.) They will always cause disruption. Disruption will lead to arguments, arguments will lead to fights, fights will lead to brawls, brawls will lead to skirmishes, skirmishes will lead to battle, battles lead to war.
_________________
Chase the horizons, catch the illusion
remember the child within
There's no tomorrow just sadness and sorrow
hold on to the Ancient Dreams

[futurefreak]

@ obscene

Thank you very much for your very intelligent question!

The answer:

You are right: Money can´t buy peace, money can´t buy love....money can´t buy anything!

Money itself (a sheet of paper with a number) is nothing. The money-function is important!

Life itself is everything between whishes and ideas.
Money is a transportation system to sell and buy materialsistic realisations of whishes and ideas in a market.

Wrong money-function: Everybody wants to have as much money as possible.

Right money function: Everybody automatically wants to have (earn) as much money as he wants to give (buy something or lend).

Wrong money: You can "earn" (blackmail!) money with money.
Right money: You can only earn money with work (and ideas).

Dimension of wrong money: energy
Dimension of right money: energy*time

Wrong money must be driven around.
Right money drives (everything) around.

Important is the money-function itself, not what we do with the money (or want to do, or whish to to).
The money-function itself defines what we CAN do with the money.

Every human being is unable to decide what is "good" and what is "bad" in every situation, if the wrong money-function is used. Millions of human beings and millions of decisions together with wrong money must drift into war. There is no other possibility - even if we all were angels.

With the right money function: "If we´re evil or divine" - there will be peace!

All people together cannot be changed (this is useless in any way), but we can change the money-function. But: Those people who are unable to do anything else but "earning" money with money rules our word. That´s the only problem since 1916.
_________________
"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." Arthur Charles Clarke, second law of prediction.