Heaven and Hell Lyrics Discussion

[nunoni]

The Chicago pile was not for peaceful purposes, and it did not produce electrical power for Chicago. It was a purely military project.

Anyway, that does not contradict the main arguments presented;

first of all, as HM says, there is a striking similarity to Genesis, and a direct call to it, both in the title Atom/Adam and Evil/Eve, in the Garden (of paradise), with a spider/snake coming in and ruining things that were previously a paradise "blue skies once upon a dream", where the dream is that mythical state of paradise.

There is a further paralel, which is the creation (of the universe in the book of Genesis), by God; and of new elements not existing in nature (this takes place in a nuclear reactor, where trans-uranian elements such as plutonium and others are produced), by humanity.

In both cases, there is evil lurking, or at least the potential for evil, depending on utilisation of the new "secrets" (knowledge is what the snake/spider brings, both in the Genesis and in nuclear science), new knowledge.

Now,

"Falling's easy
Rising will never be
So we must rise together
Here are the changes
Powerful harmony
But then there's no forever"

The changes are brought by powerful harmony, which is interesting since the Einstein's strict theory of relativity, which eventually leads to the knowledge to build a nuclear reactor or bomb, is a theory of symmetry (just like Galileo's also was). Strict relativity (as oposed to the general theory of relativity) can be entirely derived by assuming that space-time has given properties of symmetry (spacial and temporal homogeneity, and spacial isotropy), plus the experimental observation that the speed of light is a constant. Laws of symmetry are perhaps the most powerful tool in Physics. So this "powerful harmony" may be refering to Einstein's theory of relativity, which is what brings the changes the bomb) 40 years after Einstein published it. But with the changes, there is no way back, "no forever" because finally, for the first time in history, humanity has a tool that can destroy humanity itself.

And this search for knowledge started in Eden, when Eve accepted Knowledge from the Snake.

As for

"Maybe if we cry together
Maybe if we cry as one
The tears will fall to chill the fire
And keep everyone from
Atom and Evil "

seems to be well-meant wishful thinking! There is no way back from the nuclear age, the bombs are here, many countries have it, and many more have nuclear power plants.

[really long nick name]

Bible black is what it is. There is no cryptic message. It is a book of darkness/black magic/spells. Take your pick. While the lyrics "And the first page says beware you've found the answer. The next one says I wish that you were dead." can be understood to be a contradiction, however more to the point of what the lyrics are saying is that the book is a book of deception. When someone is contradicting oneself, they don't intend on it, it is just that their logic is somehow faulty. What they've said is inconsistent.

This book of darkness has a goal of deliberately deceiving the reader/practitioner. It is well aware of it's intent to contradict. It starts out sugar coated, then eventually will take more than it can possible give. The person however becomes lost and caught up in the deception. We have further confirmation of this in the following lyrics: "I must give it a code, but the way the story is told -they found me lying naked in the rain." This is to say that if book has found and rescued the reader/practioner from their pain, why should that person have to give it a code? (conjure the book for it's magic spells). So the goal of the book is to accept as true what is false. This book is a tangible object. It is a catalyst to the spirtual that enables a spirit of darkness.

[Holymagica]

nunoni
You say it much better than me.

[really long nick name]

Holy Cow man, it's not theory of relativity and nuclear reactors, it's f*** n' rock n' roll!

[The Sentinel]

[DevinMacGregor]

[really long nick name]

[DevinMacGregor]

LOL, you so funny. Actually I do enjoy the music. I do believe we all do enjoy the music. It does not mean we cannot discuss what we think it means to us. So as far as you keeping perspective that is a farce. So take the candy bar out of your arse and eat it.

I have consistently said I am a moderate, a centrist. I fall into that category on every political analysis test I take. I have disagreed with HM. We have posts on things on Lady Rock. I would more than likely shake Bobby's hand long before yours because I see you as what is wrong with the West. If you are in finance and the way you talk of things I see you as part of the group that gave out shit loads of loans that you should not had. You rob little old ladies (I sense you do not have ethics when it comes to that as well) and you apparently do not do your homework. Now I understand that and it is not like I am being overly hard on you. I did not google the Chicago Pile 1 comment like I typically do before I type things. It was a civilian research project till Germany invaded Poland and the US govt make it military classified. I was wrong on that account, AND??? No sweat for me. I want people to be informed. It pisses off finance people when you can hit them back with questions instead of them telling you not worry about the fine print and just sign it.

Bobby to me is just like many Americans unknowingly dupes to the greater machine we call economics. No offense Bobby. Good luck with the band thing.
_________________
Smacks & Manly Thumps,

The Cap'n

Sons of Griogair


http://www.atheists.org
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'S Rioghal Mo Dhream

[Bobby66]

[DevinMacGregor]

[Bobby66]

I understand how the wealth has been being disbursed Devin...but we cant f**k w/ capitalism/the law now can we?...

...what gets me is how they have the nerve to blame the workers/unions for organizing to secure some kind of decent standard of living... ...& I wonder which TDYK song could apply here?...hmmm?...Eating the fucking Cannibals MAYBE...
_________________
...As long as it's NOT about love...

[DevinMacGregor]

[Holymagica]

really long nick name
Thats the beauty of words and music...it has so many different meanings, to so many different folks.
There is nothing wrong with looking deeper into the lyrics of song.
Lyrics are complicated things, and that words often have several meanings not to the writer but to the ones who listen or read those lyrics.Fans what to know how the songwriter gets themselves into this place he creates.Sometimes songs reveal more about the personality of the writer than the writer wants to reveal but we will never really know the truth becoz the writer will only lets us know what he wants.
I find it fascinating myself becoz no one is wrong, the organic nature of Ronnie's language is always changing as is the meaning.


Bobby66.
I was thinking the same about the song, Eating the Cannibals.
I do believe it has something to do with the financial and economic activities of our Governments and major companies in the last few months.
Thats the genius of Ronnie James Dio...just look back over the years to older songs...the nature of how he writes means his music is never dated, the meaning to the individual is always changing.

[nunoni]

Breaking into heaven has some allusions to Heaven and Hell; "you got to bleed for the dancer" is mirrored by "before the fall, we were only dancers". So "dancer" is some state of ecstasy, so as someone posted somewhere, it may be an allusion to the last card of Tarot "The World Dancer of the Universe", which is the most strongly positive card of them all.

[really long nick name]