Geezer Butler Interview

[Holymagica]

Justin Donnelly conducted an interview Geezer Butler on Friday, April 17.
Heaven & Hell Interview
Conducted Friday 17th April 2009

Initially conceived as a short term reunion to celebrate their 2007 compilation effort ‘The Dio Years’ (Which was released under the moniker of Black Sabbath), Heaven & Hell (Who comprise of ex-Elf/Rainbow vocalist Ronnie James Dio, guitarist Tony Iommi, bassist Geezer Butler and drummer Vinny Appice) has since gone on to spend the better part of the last two years touring around the world, and in the process given some long overdue recognition to the post Ozzy Osbourne Black Sabbath line-up that produced classic albums such as 1980’s ‘Heaven And Hell’, 1981’s ‘Mob Rules’, 1982’s ‘Live Evil’ and 1992’s ‘Dehumanizer’.

Given the renewed interest in the reunited Heaven & Hell, it came as no surprise to see the band capitalise on their highly acclaimed live performances with the release of the live D.V.D. ‘Radio City Music Hall Live!’ at the tail end of 2007. But for all the momentum and success Heaven & Hell were enjoying on tour, plans for the band beyond the tour commitments scheduled to conclude at the tail end of 2007 were left open, with the band undecided whether to walk away with a successful year to their names, or to continue forward with plans of making a new album. Not surprisingly, Heaven & Hell announced plans in late 2007 to record a new album, and following a month long U.S. tour with Judas Priest, Motörhead and Testament in August (Dubbed the ‘Metal Masters’ tour), work was underway on the group’s first studio release together in more than seventeen years.

With the release of ‘The Devil You Know’ imminent, I caught up with Geezer Butler in L.A. to talk about the making of the band’s new release, tour plans and just why the change of heart about recording a new album.

“Well we were taking everything one step at a time. When we got together originally, it was just to promote the Black Sabbath compilation ‘The Dio Years’. It was only supposed to be supported with a one month tour, culminating with the recording of our Radio City Music Hall live D.V.D. But there was a lot of interest surrounding the band, and the one month tour ended up running for some nine months. That was all that we intended to do. But then that all changed when we were on tour in Japan (In October 2007). We were sharing a drink at the Hard Rock Café there, and Dio said that it was really going to be sad to finish up the tour given that things had gone so well. The following day, we were doing this interview, and the interviewer asked if there was going to be a new album, and Dio answered completely out of the blue with a ‘Yes!’ (Laughs) That was news to me, Iommi and Appice. So after we finished the tour, we had a couple of months off. Within that time off, I was writing stuff, Iommi was in his studio working on some stuff and Dio was compiling a bunch of stuff as well. When we finally all got together, we found that we all had a load of stuff, and we thought we would combine all those ideas to see if we could get an album out of it. We listened to each others stuff, and there was tons of stuff. So much so that we could have written and recorded a triple album. So in the end, it was quite painless to do another album together, and in a lot of ways made sense.”

In earlier interviews, Butler had mentioned that unlike making Black Sabbath albums in the past, recording ‘The Devil You Know’ was a pleasure, and came together quite quickly.

“All together, it took about twelve weeks to write ‘The Devil You Know’. We seriously started laying down the ground work on the new album about last May, where we did about six weeks worth of writing. We then took a break and went out on tour for a month in the U.S. (The ‘Metal Masters’ tour), before we came back, and did another six weeks writing. That was about it. We had finished writing the album in around twelve weeks. I think we had another couple of ideas and songs that we were working on, but they weren’t as strong as the ten songs that appear on the album, so we didn’t pursue them any further. We felt that ten was a good number of tracks, so we left it at that. Once we had finished writing, we went right into rehearsals, and played everything live so that we got to know the songs really well. All the bass runs, the drums rolls and all that kind of stuff were worked out during the rehearsal sessions. So when we got into the studio, it took us about three weeks to put down the tracks, and around a month to mix the album. It was a really quick process for us, because usually it takes us fucking ages to record an album. So we were all pretty happy with the studio experience this time around.”
If there was ever a more appropriate title for the new Heaven & Hell album, then it would have to be ‘The Devil You Know’. And while there’s potentially plenty of meanings behind the title, Butler points out that the devil in question is a well known one, even if in disguise.

“Everybody was asking me if I had any ideas for the title of the album. So I got a few titles together, and that was the one that everybody seemed to like. So you can say that I was the one responsible for coming up with ‘The Devil You Know’. The meaning behind the title is really quite simple. Everybody still calls us and sees us as Black Sabbath. So even though we call ourselves Heaven & Hell, we’re still very much the devil you know in the sense that we’re still Black Sabbath. That’s the story behind that.”

Unlike the three new tracks that featured on Black Sabbath’s ‘The Dio Years’ from 2007 (Which were written entirely by Dio and Iommi), ‘The Devil You Know’ is very much a group effort in terms of song writing, with the new album seen more as a true Heaven & Hell collaborative effort.

“The three songs on the anthology (‘The Devil Cried’, ‘Shadow Of The Wind’ and ‘Ear In The Wall’) were written well before I got involved in the project. Iommi had gone to see Dio about getting the band together to support a new best-of collection. As far as I remember it, they went back to Iommi’s house, had a few drinks and things progressed from there. Iommi has a studio in his house there, and they started writing straight away. So by the time I was involved, they already had the songs written and pretty much finished. So I really only went over there to put my bass over them. But this time, I was involved in the writing process from scratch. I mean the bulk of the song writing in Heaven & Hell is written by Iommi and Dio, because that’s the way it’s always been done. I did come in with a few riffs and some other ideas, but all the bass parts were written solely by me.”

Another participant on ‘The Devil You Know’ that isn’t all that well publicised is engineer/keyboardist Mike Exeter, who’s previously provided keyboards to Iommi’s 2004 album ‘The 1996 DEP Sessions’ and produced his 2005 effort ‘Fused’.

“There are keyboards on the album, but just a few. It’s not like the other albums we’ve made in the past. That’s the difference between this new album and ‘Heaven And Hell’ and ‘Mob Rules’. Those albums were very heavy on the keyboards, with the keyboards following the rhythms and everything. But this time, we just kept the keyboards to a very minimum so that we could go produce a rawer sound on the album.”

Another change from ‘The Devil You Know’ to previous Heaven & Hell/Black Sabbath releases of the past is the cover artwork that adorns the album. The artwork (Based on Norwegian artist Per Qyvind Haagensen’s ‘Satan’) is quite dark and different for the band, and something that doesn’t sit all that comfortably with Butler.

“The record company found that image for us. I think Iommi and Dio quite liked it. I wasn’t that happy with it, but then what can I say? It’s a majority rules within this band, and I was outvoted It’s a bit too satanic looking for me, but it is what it is.”
One particular aspect of the artwork that Butler is responsible for however is the addition of the numbers twenty-five and forty-one on either side of the band’s familiar winged demon logo on the front cover. While speculation and debate continues about the meaning behind the numbers, Butler says the explanation isn’t quite as elaborate and fanciful as the theories put forth on the band’s various forum boards.

“I’ve seen tons of those explanations on the forums! Some of them have been really quite funny! (Laughs) But the real meaning behind the numbers is quite simple. We’ve had the winged demon logo for a long time, and the record company wanted to use that logo once again on the new album. So I thought that rather than do the same thing once again, I decided that we needed to do something a little different. So I came up with a verse from the bible. It’s from the gospel according to Matthew, chapter twenty-five, verse forty-one. The verse goes, ‘Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels!’ It’s about those who sit at the left hand side of God who are cast down into hell. That’s all.”

With the release of ‘The Devil You Know’, Heaven & Hell are once again hitting the road, with plans to spend most of 2009 on the road.

“The tour starts on May 5th in South America and Columbia. That should be interesting. We then go from South America to Russia, and then we’ll be playing a lot of the European summer festivals. That will include some gigs in Germany and France as well. And then I think we’re back in the U.S. in August. Obviously with a new album, we’ll be playing some new songs on this tour. We start rehearsals tomorrow, so in the lead up to that, I’ve been listening to the album again and again. At this moment, I really like ‘Follow The Tears’. It’s a track that’s taken a few listens for me to really appreciate. It’s really grown on me a lot. I really like ‘Eating The Cannibals’ as well now. That wasn’t one of my favourites before, but that’s come up in my estimation as well. So we’ll be playing at least four songs off the new album. Well at least for South America and Europe anyway. We’ll also be including tracks like ‘Time Machine’ (From ‘Dehumanizer’) into the set this time around, because we didn’t get to play that last time we were on tour. I think it’s really good to vary the set list from tour to tour. I think that if there wasn’t a new album from us, we wouldn’t have bothered touring. But with a new album behind us, it does give us something new to work with. And it’s also more of a challenge too, especially when it comes to trying to remember everything again! (Laughs) It gets a little difficult at my age! (Laughs) At the moment, we’re just seeing how things go, so we’ve only booked shows up until September. I think we’ll probably see this year out, and then maybe do a few things next summer. After that, I think that will be it. We’ll just have to wait and see what’s happening at the time. That’s the good thing about this band. I think when you’re not planning something, it’s always a surprise when something good does happen. But hopefully the album will do well for us, and we’ll be able to revisit a lot of the places we played a couple of years ago, including Australia. I really do hope we get back down there! I love it down there.”

Despite a seventeen year gap between releases, Butler still believes that Heaven & Hell have what it takes, and have something to prove with the release of ‘The Devil You Know’.

“We put a lot of time and effort into making this album, and we believe that it’s good honest music. It’s not something that the record company controls, or anything like that. It’s all about us having a good time, and being honest with our music. It wasn’t forced, and there wasn’t any grand masterplan behind the album. We certainly didn’t record this album to make loads of money! (Laughs) We simply got together, and if it worked, it worked! And if it didn’t, then it didn’t. But the bottom line was that the album had to be really good, and we had to be really into it. And I think we surprised ourselves in regards to how enthusiastic we all were about making this album. We’re all very pleased with ‘The Devil You Know’, and I think fans will be too.”

I would like to thank Geezer Butler for his generous time, and Bob Stevenson at Roadrunner Records for making the interview possible.

For more information on Heaven & Hell, check out - http://www.heavenandhelllive.com/

Interview by Justin Donnelly

[DioInfinitum]

These guys pack a lifetime of experience into a few years in comparison to a person living a 'regular' life.

Philosophically I by all means appreciate this...Gosh man, I should have made the trip to see them last summer. I totally wimped out.