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2handband
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Nobody's going to answer my damn question, are they??? |
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thecoop
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 1390
Location: Blackpool
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe some people associate the name Dio with the early Dio band releases which are faster in tempo,and so the slow stuff isn't what they're looking for?
Personally I don't care how fast or slow it is, as long as it's good 
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stargazer
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 452
Location: UK.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| 2handband wrote: |
| Nobody's going to answer my damn question, are they??? |
yes i will, no i'm not a huge black sabbath fan. Heavy metal does NOT have to be slow in tempo, Is holy diver slow..?..last in line ..?..sacred heart..?...dream evil..?.....are AC/DC slow..?.....there are many metal bands that play fast riffs... what about 'ACCEPT' one of the best metal bands ever...call them slow...?...DIO used to be one of them...listen to 'gypsy'....KTD was returning to these faster riffs thats why it was popular and that is why DIO'S new album was going to be a more faster, upbeat album...its what the majority want nowadays....even metallica are realizing that, there new album goes back to there roots...when they were faster |
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thecoop
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 1390
Location: Blackpool
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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No, it doesn't have to be slow but it also doesn't have to be fast. The majority of people I expect simply want an album full of good songs. If all they were intrested in was speed then Malmsteem and Dragonforce would sell more than anything else. And by the way I would call Holy Diver (the song) slow, as is Shame on the Night, and actually majority of tracks on Holy Diver are mid-paced - the only really fast stuff really is Stand Up And Shout and Don't Talk To Strangers.
Ronnie will write what he wants, and I remember seeing somewhere that he likes the slow, moody stuff, so if that's what we get, it's what we get. Should he write a full blown thrash album, that would be great too - but the songs have to be good. Worry about the tempos later!
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2handband
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I never said it had to be slow, I was only asking why you felt it had to be fast. I like fast metal just fine (I love Judas Priest) but the HEAVIEST stuff is usually the slowest. Look at Sabbath. Their music doesn't make you headbang, instead it pounds you into the fucking ground.
The coop has it right. At the end of the day the ONLY thing that really matters is how good the songs are, which is why KTD falls flat for me. KTD is an attempt to return to the sound and style of HD and LIL, which would be fine if the songs were there. There isn't a single track on KTD that you could seriously compare with the better cuts from those two albums.
As The Coop also pointed out, a lot of early Dio is fairly slow. Dig Shame On the Night or Egypt, two slow songs which are amongst the best tracks on their respective albums. I'd also like to point out that two of Dio's most popular songs (Holy Diver and Last in Line) are lower mid-tempo. |
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stargazer
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 452
Location: UK.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| 2handband wrote: |
I never said it had to be slow, I was only asking why you felt it had to be fast. I like fast metal just fine (I love Judas Priest) but the HEAVIEST stuff is usually the slowest. Look at Sabbath. Their music doesn't make you headbang, instead it pounds you into the fucking ground.
The coop has it right. At the end of the day the ONLY thing that really matters is how good the songs are, which is why KTD falls flat for me. KTD is an attempt to return to the sound and style of HD and LIL, which would be fine if the songs were there. There isn't a single track on KTD that you could seriously compare with the better cuts from those two albums.
As The Coop also pointed out, a lot of early Dio is fairly slow. Dig Shame On the Night or Egypt, two slow songs which are amongst the best tracks on their respective albums. I'd also like to point out that two of Dio's most popular songs (Holy Diver and Last in Line) are lower mid-tempo. |
I would call 'killing the dragon' , 'push' and ' along comes a spider' exceptional ...would jack black appear in a video to a mediocre song..?.. I agree there has to be a mix but all of Magica is slow, it is also apparent that Ronnie very rarely plays anything off magica, and master of the moon at gigs....what does this tell us..? ..on his recent euro tour he played killing the dragon which went down amazingly, and he uses the intro at the start of gigs. I know Ronnie is proud of KTD it re-vitalised the band just when it mattered. |
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2handband
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Seems to me that he played one song each from the last three albums on the recent tour, and the only song that he ever plays from KTD is the title tack.
You did name the best three tracks on the record, but NONE of them stack up to classic songs like Shame on the Night, Don't Talk to Strangers, Holy Diver, Last in Line, or Egypt. As for Jack Black, he does whatever he gets paid to do just like any other professional entertainer. As for bad songs, I've heard Tenacious D.
If you think the entirety of Magica is slow I think you maybe ought to revisit it because you're not remembering it accurately. Turn to Stone, Fever Dreams, Challis, and Losing My Insanity are all mid-tempo or above. There's plenty of rockers unless you're one of those people who thinks that every album should have a Stand Up and Shout. Likewise MOTM has One More For the Road, Shivers, Living the Lie, and Death by Love. What more do you want?
As for Craig Goldy, it seems to me he's been involved with the writing and recording of plenty of fast songs as well as slow ones. If you like I can provide you with a link to an interview with Aldrich himself in which he states that Ronnie Dio prefers the slower numbers himself, which is why they've cropped up so frequently on recent albums. Doug SPECIFICALLY said that it's not fair to point fingers at Goldy because Ronnie Dio is the one who decides what kind of album he wants to make. Remember that most of KTD was written before Aldrich joined the band; it would have been fast-paced regardless. I'd also point out that of the three songs you mentioned Push (which has easily the best riff on the album) was co-written by Craig Goldy. The point is that these guys are all musicians for hire and they'll do whatever Ronnie Dio tells them to. He's the one who calls the shots. |
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stargazer
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 452
Location: UK.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| 2handband wrote: |
Seems to me that he played one song each from the last three albums on the recent tour, and the only song that he ever plays from KTD is the title tack.
You did name the best three tracks on the record, but NONE of them stack up to classic songs like Shame on the Night, Don't Talk to Strangers, Holy Diver, Last in Line, or Egypt. As for Jack Black, he does whatever he gets paid to do just like any other professional entertainer. As for bad songs, I've heard Tenacious D.
If you think the entirety of Magica is slow I think you maybe ought to revisit it because you're not remembering it accurately. Turn to Stone, Fever Dreams, Challis, and Losing My Insanity are all mid-tempo or above. There's plenty of rockers unless you're one of those people who thinks that every album should have a Stand Up and Shout. Likewise MOTM has One More For the Road, Shivers, Living the Lie, and Death by Love. What more do you want?
As for Craig Goldy, it seems to me he's been involved with the writing and recording of plenty of fast songs as well as slow ones. If you like I can provide you with a link to an interview with Aldrich himself in which he states that Ronnie Dio prefers the slower numbers himself, which is why they've cropped up so frequently on recent albums. Doug SPECIFICALLY said that it's not fair to point fingers at Goldy because Ronnie Dio is the one who decides what kind of album he wants to make. Remember that most of KTD was written before Aldrich joined the band; it would have been fast-paced regardless. I'd also point out that of the three songs you mentioned Push (which has easily the best riff on the album) was co-written by Craig Goldy. The point is that these guys are all musicians for hire and they'll do whatever Ronnie Dio tells them to. He's the one who calls the shots. |
'fever dreams' mid-tempo...??????...are you sure..??..btw...I agree 'shiver' is a great song |
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metal44
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 85
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey Stargazer, there's something for you, it's called Speed Metal |
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DevinMacGregor
The Cap'n
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2195
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| stargazer wrote: |
| DevinMacGregor wrote: |
| GEORDIE wrote: |
| DevinMacGregor wrote: |
| GEORDIE wrote: |
| Jack24 wrote: |
I love Killing The Dragon, perhaps not Dio at it's absolute best, but it still has some killer tracks, and if you're going to call it a steaming turd, I'd say it's a golden one.
(My least favourite Dio album is Strange Highways, never heard Angry Machines though). |
Killing The Dragon? Killer Tracks?????
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
oh man, that's awesome.
thanks for making me laugh!
the fact that you're serious makes me question your sanity |
I would question your sanity as other fans do not like the albums you like and think of them as steaming turds that do not hold up to things in the past.
It may be your least favorite album but other fans may like it and not the one you like. There are many fans who do not like the Tracy G era and consider all of it to be crap. There are many fans who do not like Master of the Moon and consider it crap as it being too slow and plodding. Would you feel those were fair assessments and not take offense to that? If you do not think it is fair and take offense then perhaps you should think about your word choice better. |
1) Thanks for the sermon (NOT)
2) I still question the sanity of ANYONE who prefers Killing The Dragon over Strange Highways and DOESN'T like Master Of The Moon. These people are probably the same people who think Nevermet is an awesome band - rolls eyes-
Thank GOD i joined the Iron Maiden forum, where they let a lot more things go and i have SUCH a better time. |
I simply gave you advice but if you want to be a dick about it then I can hit the ban button if you prefer then you can run back to the Iron Maiden forum and cry about it.
I am sorry that as a moderator of this forum I ruined your fun by calling you on calling one particular album a steaming turd which was your word choice. I did not say you had to like it but simply respect that others may prefer it over the albums you like. They may question your sanity to which I do right now as you make this lame challenge over your lack of tolerance.
A small request to which you are whining about. If that upsets you then let me know because I can accommodate your wishes over your intolerance and give you something real to whine about. |
It is true, sadly , that if you dare to criticise Ronnie on this site you are likely to have your post deleted or face a barrage of abuse, I have found that to my cost, yet , whenever I have met Ronnie he recieves criticism constructively..strange.... I have always been the first to criticise Ronnie if i do not believe in someting...isn'nt that what forums are for.....it is true that I hate this heaven and hell scenario..I'd rather have DIO.... Ronnies attempt to keep DIO fans happy with his stupid mini euro tour was a bad idea...Ronnie tried everything to keep DOUG with DIO because he new it was the way forward with DIO.. but his management blew it ...I truly believe if Ronnie had kept DOUG it would have been the resurgence of DIO, remember KILLING THE DRAGON sold more copies than both MOTM and MAGICA, why is that ?..because DOOM METAL is dead, There is enough doom in the world without hearing about it , lets have some upbeat refreshing feel good metal, its funny how the only people who don't like my criticisms of ronnie are on this forum, I won't be a bum licker and i gain respect for that.....to suddenly say you can hit the ban button just because someone speaks there mind is very sad...give someone a bit of power and it goes to there head...constructive criticism is healthy...moderators take note... |
No, YOU take note. It was his attitude towards other posters as well that I was talking about not that he HAD to like KTD. If you do not like it fine but calling someone else stupid because they do not agree with your assessment is over the top. It was not simply his non constructive criticism towards Ronnie but towards fans who post here.
There was NO suddenly about it. This poster did the same thing in OTHER threads. Comments on Nevermet was that constructive? Shit I would hate to think what you actually think is destructive. My mistake was saying anything openly and just not taking him out of the equation flat out. Warnings in a PM and then gone. But then like so many he would be whining about oppression and bashing other posters because they see it differently while at the same time bashing me on the open forum.
So once again take note to the ACTUAL number of people I have banned and to the ACTUAL number of posts I have ever edited or deleted and YOUR argument is shot down in flames.
There was nothing constructive about his criticism. So the next time you see Ronnie walk up to him, say HEY KTD (insert whatever album of your choice) WAS A STEAMING PILE OF TURDS and then state to him why are you doing all these STUPID mini tours and let's see how constructive that conversation ends.
Did it occur to you that Ronnie may be going on a customer is always right false premise. And that as you stand there and berate him he is not going to tell you to take your criticism and shove it up your arse because he does not want to lose your sale. BUT I doubt when you walk off he is looking at you kindly but holding his thumb and index finger up to your head and as he closes them back down, says "I am crushing your skull."
Would I like to see another Dio album? Yes, but as it is now Sabbath AND Dio fans get to see Heaven and Hell and we simply have to live with that until it is over. They have an album coming out and then a tour to support that album. So I see no new Dio till 2010. We can argue about it till we are blue but it does not change the reality that we are faced and we cannot change.
All I see is you whining and nothing constructive at all. And now you are whining about oppression to which who in the hell is editing your posts and have you been banned or anything? NO, so stop being irrational.
_________________
Smacks & Manly Thumps,
The Cap'n
Sons of Griogair
http://www.atheists.org
http://www.clangregor.org/famous.htm
http://www.merchco-online.com/metalbladerecords/
'S Rioghal Mo Dhream
Last edited by DevinMacGregor on Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DevinMacGregor
The Cap'n
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2195
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| 2handband wrote: |
My question for Stargazer is as follows: do you like Black Sabbath? If the answer is yes than I fail to understand why slower songs are a problem for you. Most Sabbath songs are slow. So why complain when Dio does the same thing?
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Personally, I like all of Sabbath catalog. Do I like some better than others? Sure. The same with any band. I attempt to collect entire catalogs of studio albums and anything that has a new release on it. The post Ozzy Sabbath is faster but it does have its slower tracks as well.
| Quote: |
Criticism of Ronnie Dio is not necessarily a problem; for example I think KTD is a pretty weak album chock-full of boring, predictable songs. My only issue is that your big complaint about Magica and MOTM is the tempos. Lots of great metal is slow; why is it an issue in Dio's case? I keep asking this question and NOBODY seems able to supply an answer.
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And here I have no problem with your criticism of either of those albums. You did not say what you did not like was a steaming turd or anything. I see strong and weak tracks on all Ronnie's albums. Again I personally do not have a problem with the slower songs in of themselves being slower. Just that some tracks as noted by others stand out more than others, slow, mid, or fast.
| Quote: |
As far as Ronnie Dio's "loyalties" are concerned, he's doing what everybody else in the industry does, which means going where he can make the most money and play to the most people. I actually don't think going back to Sabbath is going to cost him any fans, especially considering that many of us feel that Sabbath is, was, and always has been a better band than Dio. And since when does changing the name to Heaven & Hell constitute a lack of balls? No matter what they say in the press, the main reason for the name change is so they don't have to play Paranoid and War Pigs.
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Yes, exactly. Geezer and Iommi have stated that is why the name ... so that people know they are not going to place Ozzy era or any other non Dio era tracks. Sabbath to me is right behind Dio in any preference choice. I am saddened to the fact that he toured as Dio more than I had hoped he would had and did not release a Dio album before going to this but it is what it is. No matter how much the whining this is going to happen.
Ronnie said he would never go back to Sabbath but he as well said that he felt Sabbath and he would be the band he would basically retire from. One reason why he felt so hurt the first time they broke up. But if that is the way it is then whining about it does nothing constructive. It just adds more unneeded stress. Ronnie has given me a lot over the years and that is how I look at it. I am not saying it is over for him. He makes that call. I am just saying I am going along with the ride and enjoying what I like.
_________________
Smacks & Manly Thumps,
The Cap'n
Sons of Griogair
http://www.atheists.org
http://www.clangregor.org/famous.htm
http://www.merchco-online.com/metalbladerecords/
'S Rioghal Mo Dhream |
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stargazer
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 452
Location: UK.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| DevinMacGregor wrote: |
| stargazer wrote: |
| DevinMacGregor wrote: |
| GEORDIE wrote: |
| DevinMacGregor wrote: |
| GEORDIE wrote: |
| Jack24 wrote: |
I love Killing The Dragon, perhaps not Dio at it's absolute best, but it still has some killer tracks, and if you're going to call it a steaming turd, I'd say it's a golden one.
(My least favourite Dio album is Strange Highways, never heard Angry Machines though). |
Killing The Dragon? Killer Tracks?????
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
oh man, that's awesome.
thanks for making me laugh!
the fact that you're serious makes me question your sanity |
I would question your sanity as other fans do not like the albums you like and think of them as steaming turds that do not hold up to things in the past.
It may be your least favorite album but other fans may like it and not the one you like. There are many fans who do not like the Tracy G era and consider all of it to be crap. There are many fans who do not like Master of the Moon and consider it crap as it being too slow and plodding. Would you feel those were fair assessments and not take offense to that? If you do not think it is fair and take offense then perhaps you should think about your word choice better. |
1) Thanks for the sermon (NOT)
2) I still question the sanity of ANYONE who prefers Killing The Dragon over Strange Highways and DOESN'T like Master Of The Moon. These people are probably the same people who think Nevermet is an awesome band - rolls eyes-
Thank GOD i joined the Iron Maiden forum, where they let a lot more things go and i have SUCH a better time. |
I simply gave you advice but if you want to be a dick about it then I can hit the ban button if you prefer then you can run back to the Iron Maiden forum and cry about it.
I am sorry that as a moderator of this forum I ruined your fun by calling you on calling one particular album a steaming turd which was your word choice. I did not say you had to like it but simply respect that others may prefer it over the albums you like. They may question your sanity to which I do right now as you make this lame challenge over your lack of tolerance.
A small request to which you are whining about. If that upsets you then let me know because I can accommodate your wishes over your intolerance and give you something real to whine about. |
It is true, sadly , that if you dare to criticise Ronnie on this site you are likely to have your post deleted or face a barrage of abuse, I have found that to my cost, yet , whenever I have met Ronnie he recieves criticism constructively..strange.... I have always been the first to criticise Ronnie if i do not believe in someting...isn'nt that what forums are for.....it is true that I hate this heaven and hell scenario..I'd rather have DIO.... Ronnies attempt to keep DIO fans happy with his stupid mini euro tour was a bad idea...Ronnie tried everything to keep DOUG with DIO because he new it was the way forward with DIO.. but his management blew it ...I truly believe if Ronnie had kept DOUG it would have been the resurgence of DIO, remember KILLING THE DRAGON sold more copies than both MOTM and MAGICA, why is that ?..because DOOM METAL is dead, There is enough doom in the world without hearing about it , lets have some upbeat refreshing feel good metal, its funny how the only people who don't like my criticisms of ronnie are on this forum, I won't be a bum licker and i gain respect for that.....to suddenly say you can hit the ban button just because someone speaks there mind is very sad...give someone a bit of power and it goes to there head...constructive criticism is healthy...moderators take note... |
No, YOU take note. It was his attitude towards other posters as well that I was talking about not that he HAD to like KTD. If you do not like it fine but calling someone else stupid because they do not agree with your assessment is over the top. It was not simply his non constructive criticism towards Ronnie but towards fans who post here.
There was NO suddenly about it. This poster did the same thing in OTHER threads. Comments on Nevermet was that constructive? Shit I would hate to think what you actually think is destructive. My mistake was saying anything openly and just not taking him out of the equation flat out. Warnings in a PM and then gone. But then like so many he would be whining about oppression and bashing other posters because they see it differently while at the same time bashing me on the open forum.
So once again take note to the ACTUAL number of people I have banned and to the ACTUAL number of posts I have ever edited or deleted and YOUR argument is shot down in flames.
There was nothing constructive about his criticism. So the next time you see Ronnie walk up to him, say HEY KTD (insert whatever album of your choice) WAS A STEAMING PILE OF TURDS and then state to him why are you doing all these STUPID mini tours and let's see how constructive that conversation ends.
Did it occur to you that Ronnie may be going on a customer is always right false premise. And that as you stand there and berate him he is not going to tell you to take your criticism and shove it up your arse because he does not want to lose your sale. BUT I doubt when you walk off he is looking at you kindly but holding his thumb and index finger up to your head and as he closes them back down, says "I am crushing your skull."
Would I like to see another Dio album? Yes, but as it is now Sabbath AND Dio fans get to see Heaven and Hell and we simply have to live with that until it is over. They have an album coming out and then a tour to support that album. So I see no new Dio till 2010. We can argue about it till we are blue but it does not change the reality that we are faced and we cannot change.
All I see is you whining and nothing constructive at all. And now you are whining about oppression to which who in the hell is editing your posts and have you been banned or anything? NO, so stop being irrational. |
I was one of the first group of fans to join this site ( shortly after you devin)..and if you look back at my earlier posts you will read plenty of constructive posts. I use to enjoy your earlier posts devin because you always told it like it was, you were not afraid to air your views, but since you have become a moderator you have completely changed your tune, it is like reading a completely different persons posts....i suggest you look back at your own post history and you will find it is you that has changed..not me...i'll now shut up and let you get on with it........you can all carry on with your everything is great in the ronnie camp posts and have a totally boring forum...and btw if the new heaven and hell album is anything like the 3 new tracks written for the live album it will be a dissopointment |
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blacksheep06A
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Guys...
I rarely feel the need to step in and I haven’t done so for a long time, but – what is this thread really about? The KTD album, musical taste, song tempo...?
I guess it’s more about where our individual hearts are regarding Ronnies musical future. Some of us have embraced the Sabbath thing, others are crying over the Dio band, and others do both these things (like me). But I have followed the Dio tour in the spring, and all I can say here is to me, it didn’t feel like a good-bye tour, and I’m sure it wasn’t meant like that.
We all know that time is an issue. If anything and God willing, we’re going to get a Magica sequel from Dio – some day. Ronnie loves the heavy stuff, he will write on the heavy side with either band because that’s where his musical direction goes. Picasso had a pink period and a blue period, but it was still Picasso. Which picture will end up on your bedroom wall is anybody’s choice, but no one would have asked of the „blue“ Picasso to paint a pink one again. Artists create from their soul, not on demand, so we’re going to get what’s inside Ronnie, either way.
Let’s just appreciate it while it lasts.
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blacksheep06A
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Hey I didn't mean to kill this thread....  |
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DevinMacGregor
The Cap'n
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 2195
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| stargazer wrote: |
| I was one of the first group of fans to join this site ( shortly after you devin)..and if you look back at my earlier posts you will read plenty of constructive posts. I use to enjoy your earlier posts devin because you always told it like it was, you were not afraid to air your views, but since you have become a moderator you have completely changed your tune, it is like reading a completely different persons posts....i suggest you look back at your own post history and you will find it is you that has changed..not me...i'll now shut up and let you get on with it........you can all carry on with your everything is great in the ronnie camp posts and have a totally boring forum...and btw if the new heaven and hell album is anything like the 3 new tracks written for the live album it will be a dissopointment |
It is your prerogative to like or dislike. I have no problem with that in of itself but the original chap was not being constructive (not in THIS thread or in OTHER threads) and IF you actually really read my old posts and new posts I do still tell it like I see is. Today as then though I did a lot of self editing. None of you ever see this. I do not see moderator under my name? Do you? I backed off from this site because it was going around that I (among some others) were scaring everyone away from posting here. I post largely on Lady Rock. Well, I have sat for months now watching this site, reading posts. Well where are they? All these sissy nancy ball less mother fuckers who bitched about oppression.
Here is what typically happens. Someone puts moderator under someone's name and their posts get scrutinized. Every tom, dick and Nancy will never allow you to say anything at all when it comes to enforcing anything on the site. And once again for the record with the title I did not for any sizable amount ban people or at all edit posts other than my own. Those who were banned were typically spammers. Did I ban Bobby? Did I ban Nick? Did I ban Johnny? I have deleted 100s of my own posts though. My mistake once again was openly saying something and not doing it in a PM.
_________________
Smacks & Manly Thumps,
The Cap'n
Sons of Griogair
http://www.atheists.org
http://www.clangregor.org/famous.htm
http://www.merchco-online.com/metalbladerecords/
'S Rioghal Mo Dhream |
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